Nokia’s 2011 2nd Quarter reports revealed a drop is smartphone shipments down to 16.7 million devices, which is significantly below the 20.3 million that Apple shipped in the same period.
Nokia CEO Stephen Elop, however, remains optimistic about the transition programme that Nokia are running, with the emphasis that their long-term prospects are fine.
Source: GSMArena, Engadget.
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Mobile/web, serial lifestyle entrepreneur, speaker, MC/moderator, & writer. Owned over 80 mobiles & counting. That little extra edge of insanity...
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July 22nd, 2011 at 5:50 am Browsing with
So what?
This is like announcing that Lamborghini (supercar ONLY producer) now sells more SUPERcars than Subaru (a company whose focus in the vehicle sector is more diversified)
pertinent question: is it better to focus on a few products, or diversify in business?
Is it better to focus narrowly on the high segment of customers or attempt to be eveything to every Fatai, Abubakar and Chinedu?
Apple’s balance sheet seems to recommend laserpoint focus, and not bothering with the cash-strapped customers. Similar to the era of merchant and retail banking in Nigeria. Few branches, high networth customers, or the Oceanicbank ‘OshodiMarket’ style?
Food4tot…
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July 22nd, 2011 at 6:42 am Browsing with
nokia is somehow insane, my friends using HTC have made it almost impossible to bring out my Nokia N8 in the class.
Nokia has Symbian Anna which they could have given us as back up,but refuse to release it in time :taking us for granted…that’s how they will continue to drop.
another person among my friend bought htc hd2, london use 50k. i couldn’t stand the phone; it’s too much!
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July 22nd, 2011 at 7:09 am Browsing with
Apple ships just one phone! 20million sold! Nokia has at least 10 smartphones out there yet 16.7million…simply put nokia phones are crap these days..even those with bright prospects are hampered by nokia them self…E7, E6, X7, C7, all with fixed focus cameras! C6-01 with just 1050mah battery!
Why would they remove important features from phones? So i can quickly save up and buy the next better one? That is not just cool!
Nokia might have dominated in the era when their was no amoled, no slcd, no hd recording, no 1ghz processors talkless of dualcores, but now the game is so hot you phone got to have those and a very nice OS before u can sell! Its not about the stainless steel or build quality again!
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July 22nd, 2011 at 8:21 am Browsing with
Apple basically has only 2iphones they currently ship iPhone 3gs and iPhone4 and they have more shipments than Nokia that ships so many.
Apple share is currently over $400/share and keeps going up while Nokia shares continues to shrink.
You don’t have to be a genius to know that Nokia has ISSUES and their current phones just don’t really compete with Apple & Samsung.
I have been waiting for that super Nokia WP7 and I keep saying to my self, if Nokia comes out with a low WP7, that will be the end.
I still have lots of love for Nokia but I really need to convince my self to drop my hard earned cash for a Nokia when I have the likes of Sansung Galaxy SII and iPhone5.
Least I forget, I like Stephen Elop’s spirit.
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July 22nd, 2011 at 8:32 am Browsing with
@shayman may God bless thine soul! Nokia hasn’t seen the worst yet! They should continue with their…..in fact….i dunno if they’re just being wicked! 600mhz processor for their top-end phones and a rumored 1ghz processor for a JAVA phone. Most of their top end phones have fixed focus cameras…. They’re busy cutting costs, and how much more will it cost to have a camera with “auto-focus”? We are still watching sha.*sips coke*
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July 22nd, 2011 at 9:51 am Browsing with
If they keep up in the current idiotic way they will lose another 20 to 30% of their sales. Seriously, they are out dated :/
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July 22nd, 2011 at 9:53 am Browsing with
Lol good for nokia, after they cheated on me with n97, i swear i wont support nokia anymore!
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July 22nd, 2011 at 11:41 am Browsing with
*sips coke*
You celebrating!
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July 22nd, 2011 at 11:44 am Browsing with
With Special Thanks to God Almighty for the time spent with Nokia I am happy to inform you that Samsung Galaxy SII is now available in Nigeria. I saw it at Slot for 102,000K.
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July 22nd, 2011 at 1:03 pm Browsing with
it’s a pity what Nokia has become, it has become a motorola, History has a way of repeating itself. Nokia reallly has to learn to treat it’s customers properly.
They tell u all sorts of things that Symbian doesnt need a 1GHz processor while it’s sub-500 MHz devices just spell lag. It just hope they can turn around their fortunes quickly enough now that pwople still respect the Nokia brand.
Since they have gone the WP7 way, They should get that to the market quickly enough. It’s really taking them too long to bring new devices to the market. A new symbian wouldnt do anything to help their declining market share. Who on earth would pay top dollar for a device whose OS is all but obsolete. And get meego out there for crying out and let customers have their pick of whch OS to buy. Another think Nokia really needs is product differentiation.
Most customers that differentiate between their featurephones and their smartphones. Samsung has adopted the Galaxy thing to show people that that’s top of line models. Nokia should have used the ”C-series” for their featurephones, and use N for Symbian, W for Windows phones and X for meego. And drop the 00-01 thing
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July 22nd, 2011 at 1:18 pm Browsing with
Guys please take it easy with Nokia. How come about this sudden hatred for Nokia and its products.
A couple of weeks or months back, I believe we had a good number of Nokia fans still rooting for Nokia and their phones, defending their position and strategy vehemently and now, it appears the last man left standing is Eye.Bee.Kay.
Though I’m not a Nokia fan, I still believe they are going to turn things around when they come out with their Windows Phone 7 powered smartphones only it is taking a little too long.
Please don’t forget that Symbian and related products has been relegated to the background. I want to believe that the Symbian phones we’re seeing so far are meant to serve as stopgap pending the release of their Windows phones.
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July 22nd, 2011 at 1:45 pm Browsing with
Waoh…that cheap? Fantastic! How much is the london used pls? Lol
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July 22nd, 2011 at 2:03 pm Browsing with
Anyone who has been observing the mobile phone ecosystems will not be surprised by this info.
I’ve had an N8 since February 2011 [as a Valentine gift to myself]. While I still swear by its features and what it can do to other top-end smartphones by Apple, Android, WP7, etc, I have become disillusioned with Nokia and the way it’s treating its loyal customers.
I’ve been waiting for Symbian Anna for months now, and knowing Nokia, honestly I don’t expect Anna to be available ‘August ending’. It will surely come out in September.
The N9 is the only Nokia phone I may [I said MAY] ever buy again. I’ll keep my N8 to show my children what Nokia was in those days when they began their decline.
Android, here I come.
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July 22nd, 2011 at 3:54 pm Browsing with
Awww!!
Speechless at the mo!
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July 22nd, 2011 at 4:08 pm Browsing with
The N9 is also probably the last nokia smart phone i’ll buy if things remain the way they are, as for feature phones i am with nokia even though i am not using one right now.
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July 22nd, 2011 at 4:31 pm Browsing with
@Shayman: That’s not such a great price for a used phone released since 2009 and running Windows Mobile OS 6.5. Samsung Galaxy S (I900), with by far better hardware and later OS (Android 2.2 [Froyo]) released in 2010 goes for 60K @ Slot. And it is not a used phone.
Do some research to confirm this.
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July 22nd, 2011 at 5:30 pm Browsing with
If slot have The Samsung Galaxy S2 then I must have it by August. I can’t wait to lay my hands on this baby with gingerbread os.
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July 22nd, 2011 at 6:34 pm Browsing with
True. Whatever we see now are part of a transition process.
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July 22nd, 2011 at 6:45 pm Browsing with
They tell you correctly too. Symbian devices do not need a 1 GHz processor. My N8 and E7 run fine on 680 MHz. Symbian Anna devices have been reported to run even faster on same. Plus, the lower clocked processors give you a good experience with battery life. In my opinion, itis a good, and valid trade-off. One of the reasons I have stayed away from Android and WP devices is their relatively appalling battery life.
I have used some of those 1 GHz devices, and once youget past the hype and excitement, you find that they do not offer much in terms of improved performance. Maybe some. Certainly not much. Give me a mobile phone running below 1GHz and lasts me a day of use anyday, as against a 1GHz device that shuts down between 12 noon and 3pm.
I will repeat what I have said before: Symbian’s resource efficiency is a huge plus for those of us looking for devices that we do not have to nurse to make it through a busy day, not a disadvantage. This same resource efficiency is a plus for the BlackBerry platform too.
You need speed and bling, go for Android, WP7 and iOS. But if battery life is at the top of your priority, you almost cannot go wrong with Symbian and Blackberry.
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July 22nd, 2011 at 8:01 pm Browsing with
The N97 with it’s sub-500MHz proocessor was always freezing on me, the N8 which i havent used might have been better. But Nokia should stop been too that cheap with it’s flagships. Put in a top of the line processor & loads of ram in them, and go down with the change in price.
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July 23rd, 2011 at 12:29 am Browsing with
@harry: As old as the HD2 is, it still pack some hardware specs that dwarfs 2011 smartphones. Originally shipped with WinMo 6.5, HD2 is the only phone has had multiple OSes ported to it i.e. Android, WP7, Meego etc.
Still goes for about $400…a wonder ‘super’ smartphone.
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July 23rd, 2011 at 1:35 am Browsing with
I dey pity Nokia, The competition is driving them crazy!
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July 23rd, 2011 at 4:13 am Browsing with
@Veritas: I specifically cited Samsung Galaxy S, Maybe you can make a comparison between the two phones and try to justify the price tag of a used inferior (in terms hardware) phone to a superior one with only 10K as the price difference. Now that’s not saying HD2 is a bad phone, I’m only saying there’s better bargain out there.
I hope I’m not foiling someone’s business.
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July 23rd, 2011 at 7:03 am Browsing with
Here is a compare link between the Galaxy and HD2: http://www.gsmarena.com/compare.php3?idPhone1=2957&idPhone2=3115
Hd2 has a more solid feel compared to Galaxy’s ‘plastiqness’, aside from the amoled display and higher battery spec of the Galaxy, HD2 is my pick as it offers me many porting options…it boils down to personal preference.
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July 23rd, 2011 at 7:11 am Browsing with
Veritas09,
I am with you on this. I find it difficult to fall in love with Samsung’s obsession with “plastiqness” (if I may borrow your word) on their flagship devices.
When I pay top Naira for a smartphone, I want a solid feel. The Nokia N8 gives me that. The E7 does. As you have rightly pointed out, the HD2 does too.
As you said, it is all a question of personal preference.
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July 23rd, 2011 at 10:09 am Browsing with
Well as you said, I believe it all boils down to choice. But you forgot to include 8GB storage, USB 3.0, digital TV tuner TV output port.
Nokia fans are deserting Nokia in droves even with their solid feels.
And porting options is not something inherent in and unique to HTC HD2. Most any other modern smartphone have same capability for porting other OSes. It’s a question of fans and/or manufacturer devoting their resources to it.
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July 23rd, 2011 at 10:47 am Browsing with
As much as I crave the excitement of devices from competing platforms, I find it difficult to use any of them for extended periods. They simply frustrate me and I keep returning to Symbian’s better resource management, good battery life, and versatility.
Thinking of a possible replacement for the E7 is so painful; you see, build quality is tops, the keyboard is unmatched, the 4-inch display very good, and it has better battery life than any other 4-inch+ device that I know. I so, so hate nursing a phone so its battery can last me through the day.
Nothing from competing platforms and manufacturers seems to come close to meeting my needs.
The eventual death of Symbian might just be traumatic for me – its replacement, WindowsPhone, is plagued with terrible battery life. I hope that Nokia can make a difference in that area.
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July 23rd, 2011 at 11:59 am Browsing with
Yomi are you on Nokia’s payroll??
The apologies you give for nokia’s missteps in the name of battery life, you don’t need a good 1ghz processor(are you kidding me??) .
Hello?? This is 2011!! Get real! I love statistics like this that make Nokia’s dwindling hordes of apologist twitch!..the company has lost direction with its phones and that is a fact!
Who says symbian has a good battery life? Battery life also depends on the mode of use as you know. If I want a good solid battery I’d buy a torchlight nokia.
In this day and age, we want speed! Apps! Snappy browsers! User friendliness not the boring old crap nokia keeps churning out!
Seriously stop the nokia apologies already!!
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July 23rd, 2011 at 1:22 pm Browsing with
Ebdib,
No; I am not on Nokia’s payroll. But it is childish the way people like you think that Nokia smartphones don’t cut it for anything. That’s childish, and if I must say smacks of ignorance.
I have used more smartphones from ALL platforms than you probably can dream of using in an entire lifetime, and I still find Nokia smartphones holding their own in certain respects.
Pointing out valid shortcomings is one thing. Being paranoid is another. Some of you guys are simply paranoid. Fact: the average Symbian (and Blackberry) device – with what you call crappy processors and UIs – deliver far better battery life than the competition.
All your blind, rabid outbursts won’t change that. Plus, the average Symbian^3 smartphone still has other benefits, if you care to look. And I doubt that you do.
I think that without Nokia to rave against, someone like you wouldn’t have a job to do.
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July 23rd, 2011 at 1:35 pm Browsing with
Most of the guys who complain of a sluggish UI on Nokia devices have never used a Symbian^3 smartphone. Someone complaining of the N97 is how many years stale?
Go pick up an N8 or E7 and compare it to any of the devices released in the same period as those. Sluggish? No way.
Some of you guys pick up what some biased guys somewhere have said and just parrot them. Go use the devices before shouting in the public.
The N8 and iPhone 3GS, for example, have similar performances for most tasks. Yes; the old Nokia browser is slow. But don’t mix up the browser for the entire device.
Criticise with your eyes open and brains working, guys.
Lastly, and it must be said, there is one factor that has contributed to the huge loss of Nokia smartphone marketshare than anything else – Stephen Elop’s brainy announcement that Symbian was going to be dropped. That singular announcement is what has hurt Nokia more than anything else.
Wanna shoot someone? Point that Magnum .44 at Elop. There! I said it.
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July 23rd, 2011 at 2:26 pm Browsing with
‘Point that Magnum .44 atElop.’
That is it. Right on the ball.
U are CEO of a Toyota, and you tell the world u will hence4th use a Honda engine in your cars (because your engine is not competitive)? Hmm..
Whenever there are the disputations on which OS platform is superior (Bada, Android, Symbian, Meego, WebOS, iOS) or which input method is better (voice, hardware keyboard, touchscreen) , there is almost always a fight .
In a community of people passionate about anything (religion, politics, whatever), people always hold strong beliefs (fallacious / correct)
The more the facts are highlighted, the more the pagans, infidels / disbelievers will attempt to obfuscate.
I think it all boils down to works for you. As I once said, ‘beauty is in the eyes of the beholder’. Most people convinced against their will – using superior arguments – are of the same opinion still! Human nature. It is usually a fruitless exercise. How are you going to convince a devout Christian that Islam (or whatever else) is a better way of life?. Or that the Apple Way may not be the ‘Only Way’? The conviction must come from within. Logic will not USUALLY do it.
I feel the main thing is – what is the individual looking for in a device. Do YOU merely want to belog (fashion accessory), or you want functional practicality?
Using the automobile analogy, some people prefer a Toyota (Nokia) with its bland styling, but great practicality, easy repairability / maintainability and fuel efficiency. Some will go for a Kia (iDevice) for its its suaveness and its ‘cool’ factor, and the fact that it is the ‘rave of the moment’. Let us remember that most humans just follow the crowd. They may deny this vehemently, but subconsciously / subliminally, most people take decisions based on what others are doing, or what others might/will say.
I feel the best approach is – choose what makes you happy, or what works for you.
As in religion, you can merely state your beliefs (the facts/fallacy as you see them), and leave whoever you passing your (mis)information to – to take the decision as to which way to flow.
My own take is this – I have spent so much time with Nokia / Symbian, its numerous apps, its practicality and dependability – that it will take some doing for me to go for something different -for now. I do not much care for what is the ‘rave of the moment’ or the (un)coolness of whatever. I just use what works for me. At the moment, I am okay with the functionality I get from the Symbian devices I have so far predominantly used.
All those who love to hammer about interface deficiency can keep on with the babble. There are always software solutions to ‘MOST non-hardware-related deficiency. Being a software person, I can generally adequately address most of the minor deficiencies present in the Symbian phones.
I rest my case!
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July 23rd, 2011 at 2:45 pm Browsing with
spot on. I think it is high time we started being objective in our analysis. Because you dont like a brand doesn’t mean you should downplay its strengths.
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July 23rd, 2011 at 3:05 pm Browsing with
lol am loving this argument lol…interesting!
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July 23rd, 2011 at 4:18 pm Browsing with
Also..
I have often wondered what the REALLY reason is – for the persistent slide in the Nokia market share (at the Smartphone level o) . Despite having read several analyses, I am still mystified as to why a brand as strong as Nokia is nosediving.
Before Mr Elop set fire to the Nokia Platform (all by Himself), the Nokia grip at the smartphone level was already loosening.
Could it be the result of management complacency? Arrogance?
Before iOS and Android appeared on the smartphone scene, the mobile phone ecosystem was awash with Symbian applications. So the drift to iOS and Android not be predicated on that.
When the first iPhone debuted, there were too many deficiencies. Despite this, people were still purchasing the iDevices in droves.
The only logical conclusion is that most smartphone users at the high-tier level are not geeks, do not really make use of (or need) the smartphone features, and so did not miss the glaring deficiencies of iPhones / iPads as well as the Android OS.
Most of those adopters were only concerned with ‘going with the flow’, belonging to the ‘in-crowd’ and having a sexy-looking device to ogle, and caress. Love I truly blind.
One may ask: In what PRACTICAL ways is an iPhone 4 superior to a Nokia N8l?
People talk about the ‘user experience’ on iPhones and Androids. Would superior ‘user experience’ substitute for practicality? More so, when that superior UX is easily remedied via software (by Nokia itself or via third-party software).
Would carrying about a terribly OVERPRICED device – that you do not use exhaustively, but which merely massages the ego – make ‘sense’? It apparently does, for most humans. And Apple understands that perfectly.
People want to belong. There was this experiment carried out – that illustrates how human action is often not guided by cold analytical reasoning.
Two individuals were to be judged for suitability for a Technical Position. One of them (ABC) was not too competent at the task. It was obvious. He made some minor technical mistakes in the course of the experiment. The second person (XYZ) was coldly efficient and made absolutely no mistakes. He was obviously the more competent of the two.
Surprise! In that experiment, ABC ‘the Slop’ was judged by most as the most ‘suitable’ for the job (over XYZ), because he showed he was ‘human’ by committing some minor gaffes. The affable, easy-going guy will usually get promoted faster than that coldly efficient and effective supercilious bloke in the office. Human nature.
Apple must have studied Human Psychology before deciding on the branding / marketing approach for their iDevices. And those Psychologists at Cupertino really did a marvelous job! Reality Distortion! Mesmerism!! Mass Hysteria and Histrionics !!!
It is working.
Me, I refuse to be hypnotized.
I swear, there could be some Voodooism (from Haiti) employed to blindfold these iSheep.
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July 23rd, 2011 at 4:37 pm Browsing with
EyeBeeKay, I love your recent comment, especially the analogy with cars, religion, etc. Kudos!
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July 23rd, 2011 at 5:49 pm Browsing with
While Nokia was already losing marketshare before Elop’s announcement, the loss was not a nosedive. That announcement was premature and simply made an already bad situation worse.
Mr. Elop should have announced that Nokia was going to start producing WindowsPhone devices, and after the first WP device is out in the market, announce the phasing out of Symbian. Had he done that, the massive and rapid erosion that we are witnessing wouldn’t be this bad.
Nokia’s dethronement in the smartphone arena is not a problem, if we all would be objective. Brands peak and fall away all the time. Nations rise and fall. Where is the once-almighty British Empire today? The Roman empire? The Egyptian empire? Life goes on, people.
Motorola was once at the top of the mobile market. Look where they are today. There is NOTHING new under the sun. I would be shocked if anyone told me they expected Nokia to rule forever. Sirs, no-one does. Even Apple won’t.
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July 23rd, 2011 at 6:28 pm Browsing with
Eye.Bee.Kay I’ll agree with you if ur last comment is directed on Apple products specially, but you mentioned Android alongside even though the focus seemed to be on iOS devices.
You’ve already admitted Android and iOS superior UX to Nokia so let’s leave it at that.
You mentioned Android/iOS devices’ glaring deficiencies. Maybe Apples close control and some missing features like lack of SDcard support. For Android maybe battery life is the only thing Nokia has advantage over Android devices. But I can tell you I have no battery issues so far [LG Optimus p500]. By the way, I considered Nokia E5 seriously before settling with this phone and I still believe it is the best decision to have made.
One may ask: In what PRACTICAL ways is an iPhone 4 superior to a Nokia N8?
Though I’m an Apple hater, but if you don’t think UX (which includes ease of use of device) is practical then I don’t know what is.
I actually believe Apple’s restriction rather than Nokia’s awkward UI can easily be remedied throng jailbreaking.
…terribly OVERPRICED devices …
Certainly for all Apple products and some Android and Nokia devices too.
And finally, if you pitch equally priced Android and Nokia phones today on ur PRACTICAL AND USABILITY terms, Android will win some while Nokia will some too.
At the end of the day, it boils down to what works for you or simply your choice.
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July 23rd, 2011 at 7:08 pm Browsing with
Eyebeekay….-are you a lawyer?
your analysis is very very interesting and funny but the message was passed across…
The same problem is what we have with the current blackberry craze in nigeria…people buy it just to follow the crowd and to belong and nothing more!
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July 23rd, 2011 at 8:03 pm Browsing with
Yomi, I am with you on Elop’s elopment with Nokia’s brand loyalty…
Harry Echemco >>>> let us examine UX/ease of use.
Some of the things for which people use their phones are:
Look up contacts and call up their buddies.
Chat up their buddies
Browse the internet
send sms
Running 3rd-party apps
Please correct me if I am wrong, but all these functions, at the Operating System level, are the same. It is a matter of HOW they are handled (UX). Luckily, most of these things are taken off the hands of the OS – which has more important things to track and do – like smart resource management, efficient multitasking, smart power management, e.t.c.
Many of these things are handled proficiently – by third party apps. That is what those apps are there for – to handle your interaction with the device – via the OS.
We have heard of Opera Mini / Uc Mobile for browsing
Nimbuzz / WhatsApp for chatting
Youlu to management your contacts e.t.c
These exist for/on most platforms
If an OS (say Symbian) is deficient in the the way it handles these tasks (UX), it is not enough reason to jettison it or jump ship on the scale we are seeing, particularly given the fact that there are other stronger points over the competition (better battery life, more efficient resource management, better multitasking, superior camera technology, an overflowing application availability [before the overtake]).
Expecting an OS to also handle the interface to everybody’s satisfaction – is akin to expecting Windows 7/8 to internally handle everything ‘interface’ perfectly. It is simply unrealisable
To illustrate, does Windows DeskTop allow you to have multiple items in the system clipboard – for Copy & Paste? No, but numerous applications exist for this.
Does Windows allow you to program your keyboard and redefine them as you like? No, but there are multitudes of programs that implement this.
Does Windows allow you to take screenshots of your screen, natively? No!
My point is, an Operating System’s primary duty is not to provide the fanciest interface (hello, cryptic Unix). That can be handled by applications. The core functionalities have been there in Symbian before people dreamt iOS / Android into existence.
Thus, the massive adoption of the iOSes and Androids of this world – on the basis of UX – is mystifying. UX can not be the sole reason for the massive adoption. It is likely to be linked to the points I highlighted earlier on.
As to the ‘over-priced’ aspect of iPhones, I believe there are no arguments. iPhones (not Androids) ARE comparatively terribly overpriced. Overpriced in terms of the manufacturing cost vs selling price, as well as, when compared with comparative deices.
But of course, value is in the heart of the purchaser
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July 24th, 2011 at 12:03 pm Browsing with
Really lovely arguments on both sides of the fence. I have obviously refrained from commenting so far on account of obvious reasons. However I would just like to retort that the arguments in favour of Nokia seem to have the greatest oratory and passion. Despite all, many people myself inclusive still love Nokia’s Symbian and have serious Nostalgia seeing it go.
For a Long time, I had already noticed the mobile smartphone mindshare trends and I have spoken out that Apple appears to be gaining very fast and has been broadly accepted. That was before Android caught up and also overtook iOS in its own strength. It’s significant to also note that Apple beats any Android manufacturer in volume sales but together, Android exceeds iOS. RIM was also retrogressing in sales out of an adept inability to churn out new competitive products into the market.
Nokia is not dead but the truth is that Symbian is dying and will be dead soon. And no one needs a rocket scientist to fathom why nobody wants to invest hard earned money in a ‘Dying” Platform. Also, Nokia’s present strategy appears to be favoring Microsoft much more than it is doing for Nokia! Something is not quite right Or how could you explain killing an aspiring product line (MeeGo N9) that had garnered positive reviews even from Nokia’s worst critics?!?
I always felt RIM, or HTC would take the crown from Nokia. But coming from APPLE it is something. Quite unexpected. Unlike Eyebeekay’s analogy, I wouldn’t liken Apple to Kia. Kia cars are Cheaper than comparable Toyota products. Such analogy are fundamentally wrong because Apple phones are more expensive than Nokia phones! It’s like a luxury car line like Jaguar or a Rolls Royce selling more cars than Toyota or Ford (General Motors)! Unthinkable, but if it does so then damn so much more money because of a healthy profit line per car/phone sold! Apple had already taken the crown from Nokia in Highest income generated from Phones sale for over a year. Now it is going further to beat Nokia in actual volume of Smartphone sales in the last quarter! This is no small feat for Apple because their phones sell in the high end, literally costing an arm and a leg compared with Nokia and Android that sell cheaper moderately priced phones!
The scale is bigger than you could imagine if you factor in actual profits.
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July 24th, 2011 at 1:14 pm Browsing with
Beautiful analysis up there.
But its so unfortunate, nobody wants to know that u read 24hr/7days a week, all they want is good grades. nobody wants to know that u slept in the office, all they want is results.
No shareholder is going to show pity,love,Sympathy, or anything whats so ever when you keep recording losses. People have invested in Nokia and they want returns.
I am nobody’s fanboy am just a lover of Gadgets and Great things.
I love the Apple Ecosystem
I love the power of Android
I love the versatility of Symbian
I love the simplicity of WP7
and I love the way BB handles Email &BBM.
But one thing Nokia did which I dislike is the early announcement of Symbian death and that is what has caused all these. Nokia has been leading Apple in Smartphones sales like forever.
How will you feel, if your are a Nokia shareholder?
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July 24th, 2011 at 5:51 pm Browsing with
This is one of the longest arguments I have read on MN. All contributions are quite interesting though some were off the topic. This is about nokia loosing the smartphone segment market to apple,not phone market. That doesn’t mean nokia is still not popular. They still serve the largest population of phone users and satisfatorily too. Apple, android, winmo and webOS kicked with the smartphones OS and have been developing on them ever since. May be nokia would have been in the fore front of smartphone shipments if they were solely producing smartphones from inception. But I think they are still making more of the right choices in the present transformation.
Like Yomi mentioned, Elop shouldn’t have announced the death of symbian, that is what accounts for lower sales presently. If nokia fans were not given the impression that their nokia devices are on death row, they and others that love nokia phones will buy more. App developers wont pull out their resources for developing for symbian. Then at the launch of the WP7 devices, nokia lovers will be given the choice of either WP7 or symbian Anna. The transformation will be close to seamless. Shipment figures wont nose-dive, although nokia may not retain leadership, considering aggressive nature of competitors like samsung.
We cannot be more concerned than nokia’s management. That will be crying more than the bereaved. Nokia too is working hard to correct all these stats. For example, they’ve told us to expect their first WP7 this year, which was initially slated for 2012.
I believe at the end of the day, users will start deciding based on strengths of the different smartphones available and their trade offs. Nokia has better battery life than most devices I know. If they can implement that on their WP7 range, it will be a plus. WP7 may not have as many apps as apple and android, but you cannot deny fluidity of WP7 and the new capabilities of the Mango update. I see nokia bouncing back, but the road is gonna be tough. Like I said earlier, whatever makes your cup of tea, you will choose. I use android presently and loving it. It has a bad battery life, but that’s my trade-off.
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July 24th, 2011 at 5:53 pm Browsing with
@bosun99uk:
I think this versatility being ascribed to Symbian is a serious misnomer.
The only thing Symbian can do better than Android is managing resources more efficiently that is manifested in good battery life. Can that alone be deemed as versatility as against other OSes.
There just is nothing Symbian can do presently that Android cannot do and even better in most cases.
People visit this site and it would not be good to misinform them for the sake of brand loyalty.
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July 24th, 2011 at 8:57 pm Browsing with
Harry,
Symbian versatility a misnomer? Nothing that Android cannot do and even better in most cases?
Sir, do think again.
1. Symbian supports full theming/skinning. Not just changing wallpaper, but changing wallpaper, background, effects and audio notifications by changing a theme. Far better than the sorry excuse that Android provides by way of 3rd party homescreens.
2. Better security. Android is full of security holes that constantly get exploited. Symbian security is way better. Almost nothing gets run without the user’s permission, unlike Android where almost anything can run undetected.
3. Real, proper multi-tasking, not the hodge-podge look-alike that Android offers.
4. Support for a wider range of form factors, including regular keypads and better QWERTY bar support.
5. Better resource management. You already know and acknowledge this.
There. Five (5) things that Symbian does much better than Android, and I didn’t break a sweat to get them. These things are so obvious that I wonder why you made that statement.
Fact: Symbian is a highly versatile mobile OS inspite of all its faults.
You guys need to sit back and get more facts before accusing MobilityNigeria of misinforming readers. You were out of line sir.
PS: Of course, none of the above facts change anything about the news item: Apple has now overtaken Nokia as the top smartphone maker. But facts are facts.
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July 24th, 2011 at 11:17 pm Browsing with
@ Yomi, I object to some of the facts you mentioned above.
1. Theming: you were wrong about android here. Any time I change the theme on my phone, its so indept that people actually do think I went and bought a new phone. Imagine a theme with 45mb size. Everything changes. Dial pad, browser, app icons, contact, messages, system icons, notifications,boot animations e.t.c Even buttons on third party apps change.
2. Security. This is a challenge to all OSes. Android had its own fair share and have since improved on it. I have noticed over time some of this checks after installing updates. The users permission is required for several operations to run in the background these days unlike before.
3. Multitasking. This is one of android’s greatest strength. Its one of the reasons some users get attracted to it. I run multiple apps simultaneously on my sgs. Imaging downloading a file from the internet, listening to music, having google maps, document editor running in the background and still playing playing asphalt 6 (a 350mb size heavy graphic game) without any lag. How much more do you demand of multitasking?
4. Form factor. Not all androids are touch screen. There is the Motorola Droid pro (not sure of the name really), the x10 mini pro, samsung galaxy pro e.t.c. though I must admit, nokia sure do have an upper hand here.
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July 25th, 2011 at 2:32 am Browsing with
@Yomi Adegboye:
1. Symbian supports full theming/skinning…
Eye.Bee.Kay in this same topic questioned if superior UX can substitute practicality. Now this mere cosmetic theming that doesn’t affect performance or improve how we use the phone, that still leaves the phone with the clunky UI. Monkey will always remain a monkey irrespective of how well we dress it to look human. It will always have a monkey brain. By the way, lack of skinning or theming on Android is actually intentional design to maintain uniform UI and UX across all Android devices running the same version of the OS.
2. Better security.
Apple or rather their fans in their niche market in the desktop computer platform have always bragged about how secure the platform is, but recent happening has proved that any platform can easily be compromised if attackers decide to channel their attention on that platform. Uncle Yomi, Symbian is secure because no one has cared to expose how insecure Symbian is.
3. Real, proper multi-tasking, not the hodge-podge
look-alike that Android offers.
I use Android device right now and I appreciate what multitasking is all about. I sometimes would be playing music in the background and also be browsing the web at the same time, open numerous webpages in background tabs and while waiting for my requested pages to load, put the browser in the background and open the dictionary to look up some words and later put the dictionary in background to check out the loaded webpages. If the above does not illustrate multitasking in your own definition, maybe you can elaborate on it.
4. Support for a wider range of form factors,
including regular keypads and better QWERTY bar support.
Sir, you’ve already reviewed Samsung Galaxy Pro that’s a candy bar QWERTY and some Sony Ericsson slide out QWERTYs (the X10 mini and the X10 mini pro) here. Let me mention to more candy car Android phones: Acer beTouch E210 and Motorola XPRT.
Lack of numerous QWERTY candy bar Android phones are not Android problem but rather what manufacturers prefer to produce based on their conviction on trend competitiveness. Same for regular keypad candy bar phones. In this age, no manufacturer is ready to produce an Android keypad phone that would find it difficult distinguishing itself from regular feature phones.
As you know, All the Android full touchscreen phones always have virtual QWERTY keypad that can be activated in the prostrate mode, proving that Android natively supports keypad, and thus should support regular keypad candy bar form factor.
5. Better resource management. You already know and acknowledge.
Yes I admitted this as the only area Symbian is better and I can’t how that can earn Symbian versatility.
Please, I wasn’t accusing MN of misinforming readers but rather someone that used that word versatility to summarize Symbian. I still maintain that it is wrong to ascribe versatility to Symbian as its s strong point against other smartphone OSes, in particular Android.
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July 25th, 2011 at 7:09 am Browsing with
Harry,
Let’s tackle your responses one after the other. On theming/skinning, in your attempt to diss Symbian at all costs, you made contradictory statements.
First, theming is cosmetic, you say, and doesn’t affect performance or usability (of course, that’s not true, but I digress).
Then you say that it is left out of Android intentionally to maintain uniform UI and UX (read: usability) across the platform. Yet, we know that Android does support some form of theming via 3rd party apps (which belushi mentioned in his response, and mentioned what a significant difference a theme makes on Android, even though it is not as deeply integrated as on Symbian).
Whose word do we take? Yours or belushi’s? I have used those devices and I know that belushi is right. Thenes do make a difference – even on Android, though they are skin-deep. Until you admit to the inconsistency in your argument, the two of us will not make any progress.
This kind of double-sided arguments wont fly. You take a proper position now or we forget it.
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July 25th, 2011 at 7:46 am Browsing with
so its no longer apple versus nokia..its now android versus symbian! Hehehe anyway am loving d arguments and as the CHIEF JUDGE here
i’ll give the final verdict when you guys finish arguing 
ride on guys!
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July 25th, 2011 at 7:48 am Browsing with
@belushi:
Thanks for those wonderful points. I read Yomi’s post well after you must have posted your comments. Unfortunately, it wasn’t visible then, for there wouldn’t have been the need to duplicate the points.
I’ve never downloaded a theming app on my device before and wouldn’t know there’s one out there. More importantly, I never bothered with themes otherwise I would have gone hunting for one.
Well before Android garnered enough momentum to interest attackers, I was already seeing antivirus applications for the Symbian platform. That’s not speaking well of a platform that is very safe as Yomi would have us believe.
For the records, we all know that Android is built on Linux kernel that’s known for its security strengths. I’ll rather have Android open the way it is right now than having it being locked down and controlled in the name of security as in iOS devices.
Let me make one final point clear! Symbian is certainly very versatile as a smartphone OS, but this is not a point to be mentioned when comparing to other equally versatile OS like Android. Android probably has the edge over Symbian in versatility. Android runs Linux kernel which some of its design goals are multitasking, security etc. Guys we’re actually talking about a full-fledged and proven desktop OS kernel here.
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July 25th, 2011 at 8:05 am Browsing with
Harry,
You did not know that theme apps were available for Android and the effects those themes have, but you are so sure about what theming/skinning is on that platform?
Also, now you say that Symbian is very versatile, even though the reason for this discussion is that you accused myself and someone else of misinforming people by describing Symbian as versatile (yes; I said the same thing ever before bosun99uk did)?
Lastly, if you know anything about security on Symbian, you would know that industry experts have repeated for years that those antivirus apps on Symbian are scare-tactics by companies that want to make money off the gullibility of users. No Symbian device needs an antivirus app.
I have used lots of Symbian devices more extensively than most people have ever done, and I have never installed one single antivirus app on any of them. They are NOT needed. The presence of the apps in the market does not mean that they serve any useful purpose. Fart apps, anyone?
Lastly, it does not seem that you know the things that you so quickly argue about. I find it frustrating to discuss these issues with people who are in the dark about the things they argue. You obviously do not know either Android or Symbian deeply, and you certainly haven’t used them as extensively enough to be arguing these points.
Permit me to turn face to belushi who sounds like he has used them in greater detail and seems to understand them better. Cheers.
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July 25th, 2011 at 8:22 am Browsing with
Shayman the judge are you there? Someone is trying to bolt on a flimsy excuse. Please don’t let him.
I still say it again. Theming is cosmetic and doesn’t affect device’s productive and functional performance. Well we know it can be done on Android and very effectively too. Belushi has confirmed that. Now that’s taken care of, over to you Yomi.
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July 25th, 2011 at 8:29 am Browsing with
as If i knew this Netquin antivirus i installed on my symbian phone is crap! Well i uninstalled is 2weeks ago when it started asking for 50naira daily just to update…symbian truly doesnt need an antivirus just a distraction…
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July 25th, 2011 at 8:51 am Browsing with
Jesus christ! see what Elop has caused! some of us say it coming. Elop a mole, a worm, etc.
Uncle Yomi has entered OVER DRIVE.the heat is so hot that i will sure get burnt if i jump in.
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July 25th, 2011 at 9:08 am Browsing with
Belushi,
Hood to have you step into this discussion. So, let’s roll!
1. Theming/Skinning
I wasn’t wrong. I said that Android handles theming via 3rd party apps. You have to install a desktop app first, then go hunt for 3rd party themes that are compatible with that app. On Symbian, theming is built-in and you simply install the theme of your choice. That’s better; isn’t it?
That’s what this discussion is about – things that Symbian handles better than Android. It wasn’t a question of whether or not Android does the same thing. It was and is about whether it does it better.
2. Security.
Yes; we see some of that in Android, but the platform simply has more exploitable holes than Symian does. Wish I could point you to a document that highlights Symbian’s architecture security. Industry personnel call it impressive.
While I don’t have all the technical jargon here, I have read enough about both platforms (not from bloggers but professionals) to affirm that Android doesn’t hold a candle to Symbian with regards security.
Still, if you are unsatisfied, we may leave the matter alone.
3. Multitasking
On Android, when you leave an app, it is left in a paused or frozen state. Where it looks like an app is running in the background, it is actually a “service” or “process” that is running, not the app e.g. in the music player.
Surely, Symbian does multitasking better than Android.
4. Form Factor
You already conceded that Symbian seems to have an edge here, so I won’t flog it. Symbian is really better suited to other form factors than Android.
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July 25th, 2011 at 10:10 am Browsing with
You can say that again. im just laughing here
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July 25th, 2011 at 11:10 am Browsing with
@eyebeekay u have said it well. ive been arguing the same thing with my brother for the past month. people who buy apple prodduts only buy them to show off or as a fashion accessory. I think we should just conclude that people would rather spend their money on something because its flashy nature than what it actually does for them. same reason why analog rolex watches sell more than g- shocks which offer more functionality: alarms, water resistance. some of them even have gps
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July 25th, 2011 at 11:57 am Browsing with
@ Yomi
Theming on android as I know it, is possible in two ways. The first is by downloading any launcher of your choice from the android market and applying whichever theme available for it. Examples here are the go launcher, launcher pro, ADW launcher, touchwizz launcher e.t.c. the changes made here are not that much.
The second type can be applied to rooted androids just like mine. And this type of theme surely runs deep. They are created by developers in .zip files. You download into your phone and flash it through recovery (Clockwork Mod), just as you flash any custom rom. It will change every look on your phone.
Now, theming definitely affects the functionality of a phone. If you install theme with lots of bright colours like white will affect your battery life.
About multitasking, I don’t think programs running in the background gets frozen on android, well, not on mine. Like I mentioned earlier, when downloading a file in the background, it runs and would have finished downloading by the time I turn to check it. Also, my gps tracking does not show me at the location where I turned to using other apps on my phone say 20mins earlier, it will indicate my present location at that point in time. I think that is true multitasking, abi?
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July 25th, 2011 at 1:51 pm Browsing with
Yomi you’re beginning to sound baseless all in a desperate bid to win.
You know that there enlightened foreigners who visit this site and they’ll be reading your uninformed arguments.
You’re still struggling to win even in areas that Android is absolutely better. What does it matter to a smartphone user that Android plays music in the background through “a service” so long as the musici is played satisfactorily without any perceptible change in quality as against playing it through the app in the background?
Android is intelligent enough to know that the UI component of the app is not required when in background and thus freezes them. When you bring the app to the foreground, you still see your app “apparently” playing the music.
Why don’t you make fuss that your smartphone isn’t playing actual drums and guitars when you listen to Bob Marley through your phone to produce the sound you hear?
I mean what does it matter to the user how the OS handles its tasks so long as the job is done effectively and efficiently too?
In conclusion, your arguments on security and form factor shows that there are so many things you don’t know about OS security and business processes. I have tried to show you that Android can handle any form factor, but consideration for trend and competitiveness will not allow manufacturers produce some form factors.
Symbian reigned when the attention of crackers was on the Windows desktop OS. Now is the smartphone age and Symbian is already dying so nobody cares about a dying platform anyway.
IOS appears secure because Apple used what is called, “business logic” to augment the security of their platform, not that iOS is inherently more secure than Android.
You’ve simply made it clear that you’ve bigoted or in desperation to win the argument, so enjoy yourself.
By the way it’ll not surprise me if I don’t see this post on your site or if I’m barred from feature comments. I’ve actually enjoyed myself so far. Good day.
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July 25th, 2011 at 3:02 pm Browsing with
@Harry, it would be best to always be sure that when you make statements, they are not just blanket statements, but facts.
The Android OS does not work well on certain from factors, because it wasn’t originally built for such form factors. The reason is not far fetched. Hardware requirements, minimum screen resolution and all just make certain form factors incompatible with the Android OS.
Take the QWERTY Candy Bar form factor for example, because of the screen size of such form factor, the manufacturers like Samsung and Motorola had to do serious tweaking just to put an Android OS on it. Still, the Android experience on such form factors are less than satisfactory when compared to other form factors it was built to work with.
Symbian, on the other hand, works like clockwork with those.
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July 25th, 2011 at 3:30 pm Browsing with
I forgot to add in the issue of security, it seems all those developers are just out to make money, I had netqin on my sgs for a while but never detected anything. Just occupying ram space. I had it deleted after reading on xda how useless most of these antivirus apps are. Android takes enough care of its own.
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July 25th, 2011 at 4:10 pm Browsing with
@Dayo:
Motorola XPRT has no tweaking whatsoever. You see, the problem is still trend issue not a technical one. Android is not incapable of handling any form factor the only problem is consideration for trend and profitability. Manufacturers will have a hard time convincing customers to buy regular candy bar keypad Android phones with the standard high-end configuration at the conventional smartphone prices.
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July 25th, 2011 at 4:17 pm Browsing with
Platform security on symbian. See bit.ly/nOz5MY . Old article, but the points in there are eternal truths.
Excerpt :’A virus that does not use sensitive features of the device, which means do not need signing, may get into a device easily’. I have heard it said confidently often enough – that Symbian does not need antiviruses.
I have always had my doubts. It is like arrogantly claiming that a Titanic can never sink.
Here is my reasonig: The seeming imperviousness of Symbian is predicated on the requirement to sign applications that perform sensitive functions on the phone.
Well, people (me!) get apps from untrusted sources. It does not mean those apps are dangerous. But they could be!
If i get an app from wherever, sign it myself (or hack my phone to allow installation of unsigned apps), it means i can get infected. Pure logic!
I would then conclude that no particular OS is necessarily more secure than the other. It depends on the energy/attention directed in compromising its security (like Harry said)
For example, SEVEN push email app for Symbian surreptitiously sends sms during installation. You would not know unless you checked your outbox. It asks no question. If it fails to send the sms (no credit, say) , it gives no indication. Typical viral behaviour!
You can imagine what any other app can do (send all your contact details in the background, for example. )
Surely, if you use apps from arcane sources, or you hack your Symbian phone, you are susceptible to viral attacks on your Symbian device.
With the ‘openness’ of the Android (on sensors), the virus problem is likely to be worse. I could simply write a virus to simply drain your battery, in addition to performing the main, useful function.
Similarly, iOS is likely to be NATIVELY secure, based on the ‘stranglehold approach’ to app certification. But of course – if you have not DISvirgined the iDevice!
Themes. I personally do not bother with. The best theme on any platform would have some negative impact (no matter how miniscule) on the battery life. Some would even result in a lethargic display.
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July 25th, 2011 at 5:43 pm Browsing with
It is very comforting to know that there’s someone here who’s ready to tell the truth even if that truth does not favour his initial stand.
I’m not saying that this conclusive in itself but it’s at least an eye opener.
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July 25th, 2011 at 7:53 pm Browsing with
It’s being hours of non stop action .. The tackles have been flying in from both corners.. Looks like Andriod FC are about to win this but don’t ever write off Symbian United they just might nick this one. More commentaries coming on your number one channel MN Sports. Andy Gray reporting live !
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July 25th, 2011 at 8:20 pm Browsing with
very funny…lol…have really enjoyed d match on MN today!
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July 25th, 2011 at 8:21 pm Browsing with
That sir is a fallacy.
If it takes more energy and attention to compromise the security of platform X than it takes to compromise platform Y, then platform X is certainly more secure than the latter.
It is interesting that you now make this statement:
This alludes to Android’s weaker security; does it not?
Also, I have not argued that Symbian is 100% secure, but that it is clearly more secure than Android.
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July 25th, 2011 at 8:36 pm Browsing with
Belushi,
Whether it’s theming via 3rd party launcher apps or rooting, we are saying that it is not a built-in feature on the Android OS. Again, that means that Symbian does it better than Android does.
As for multiple-tasking, if you read Google’s documentation, the subject of background apps being paused/frozen is well stated there. Perhaps you’d love to do a quick Google search?
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July 25th, 2011 at 10:12 pm Browsing with
((With the ‘openness’ of the Android (on software), the virus problem is likely to be worse.)
i am not implying any technical superiority of Symbian over Android here – as regards security.
i an merely refering to the more liberal policy of Google INC as regards omitnring the apps installed on their platform.
((I would then conclude that no particular OS is necessarily more secure than the other))
Now, etch that in gold, so it would not get obliterated!
what does it matter the energy / effort expended to compromise the security of a platform?
The point here -is- if it can eventually be compromised, it aint secure.
((Also, I have not argued that Symbian is 100% secure, but that it is clearly more secure than Android))
If that were so, why then claim so confidently that antiviruses are mere ‘bloatware’ on Symbian devices?
secure? more secure? is it secure, or is it NOT?
hungry? more hungry? of what importance is the qualification ‘more’ – here?
How can we categorically declare that Android is LESS secure than Symbian?
I would be comfortable to use phrases like ‘likely to be’. Issues like platform SECURITY, fear, hunger, etc – are mostly SUBJECTIVE and can NOT be empirically proved! Arguments about such things are mere cerebral gymnastix- destined for NOWHERE!
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July 26th, 2011 at 12:08 am Browsing with
Because security is not only about viruses. That Symbian doesn’t need antivirus apps does not mean it is 100% secure. Security is not just a question of viruses alone. You should know that as someone who claims to be a techie.
For example, plain stupidity is one of the other factors in security. If People are stupid enough to leave their doors open, they shouldn’t cry when robbers get in.
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July 26th, 2011 at 12:15 am Browsing with
How can we claim that Android or iOS is more user-friendly than Symbian or Blackberry?
User-friendly? More user-friendly? Of what importance is the ‘more’ here? That’s subjective too. How can we categorically declare that iOS is more User-friendly than Blackberry?
Let’s just throw out all the qualifications and stop dissing anything for being less, or praising anything for being more.
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July 26th, 2011 at 12:48 am Browsing with
By the way, there have been comments from a couple of sad sorry losers griping about the fact that Nokia gave me a couple of those magnificent Symbian^3 devices for keeps. Those pathetic little people are accusing me of being on Nokia’s payroll.
Of course, I sent those comments off to the SPAM box. We’ll always have whiners and no-goods who just can’t be happy for some of us. Probably wishing it was them with the free N8 or E7, but unable to admit it.
If Nokia were to offer those scallywags a job today, they would likely have an epiphany, and they’d jump in right away. They don’t hate Nokia or Symbian. Or me. They probably just hate that they aren’t getting some. Poor things, but very typical.
Suggestion: how about go start a blog to praise any of the Android smartphone manufacturers to high heavens and see if it gets you any free devices, then come back to testify?
PS: Respect to Android manufacturers. No offence meant. Just giving it to these rascals. And yes, do send me some of that Android love too! A Galaxy S 2 or Xperia Arc or something of the sort would do. Samsung, LG, Huawei,Sony Ericsson; you guys listening?
In the meantime, shall the rest of us who want to discuss real issues get on with our intelligent discussion/s? We shouldn’t get distracted by numskulls and airheads.
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July 26th, 2011 at 5:23 am Browsing with
(( For example, plain stupidity is one of the other factors in security. If People are stupid enough to leave their doors open, they shouldn’t cry when robbers get in. ))
True enough. I said that much when we were dueling about the ‘free browsing’ issue.
But – we are taking about technical issues IN THIS INSTANCE i.e security on Symbian, Not human foibles like ‘stupidity’ -
as it affects ‘platform security’. That is diversionary!
If you were to pursue that line of argument, we can conveniently start arguing ad infinitum about battery (in)efficiency based on how you use your phone.
So – let us leave out the human factor.
Apart from ‘plain stupidity’, and that ['Security is not just a question of viruses alone], what else is there to highlight about security on Symbian – what?
That leaves JUST VIRUSES, does it not?
About those ‘scallywags ‘ and ‘sorry losers’ and…
Must you use such strong language on a public forum- even if (you think) they deserve to be called names? Decorum? Civility? Moderation in all things -language inclusive? Hello? Making any sense here?
Must you respond to obnoxious comments? You have ‘sent them to the spam box’ – why refer to them?
This is like hitting out @ somebody who is not able to hit back – called ‘bullying’ in my younger years in school.
If you are going to verbally pillory some people, give them a chance to have their say – by publishing their comments. Otherwise, do not even bother to refer to their hair-brained comments! But then, that is just my opinion…
No offence meant o!
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July 26th, 2011 at 6:04 am Browsing with
This is the sweetest argument i’ve seen this year! I feel like crying lol…
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July 26th, 2011 at 6:04 am Browsing with
EyeBeeKay,
I repeat that you should know that there is more to security than virus threats. Don’t get overexcited and derail by hanging on to my playful poke about human stupidity. Heard of worms? Trojans? Those are not viruses; are they? Must I spell everything?
And while we are at it, let’s not forget the core matter of security, because it matters – built-in secure architecture which you have attempted to dismiss with a cursory wave of the hand. Fact: some platforms are more secure than others depending on the level of secure coding that went into creating them.
To question the use of qualifications is absurd. If you insist on following that line, then by all means let us discontinue this discussion.
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July 26th, 2011 at 6:18 am Browsing with
Jenuwa,
I haven’t had this much fun in a long, long while on MN.
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July 26th, 2011 at 6:24 am Browsing with
(( Heard of worms? Trojans? Those are not viruses; are they? ))
Obfuscating by hiding behind semantics?
I hereby ‘cap my pen’
Enjoy your day, Sir!
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July 26th, 2011 at 6:27 am Browsing with
EyeBeeKay,
Godspeed, old chap!
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July 26th, 2011 at 6:42 am Browsing with
I’ve Read with dismay as these debates have steadily gone from objective to mere semantics and attack on persons and not on the issue. Just to remind us the article is about Apple overtaking Nokia in volume sales of smartphones. The discourse suddenly veered to Symbian’s versatility and then the importance of User interface and finally which platforms is the most secure.
I would like to acknowledge that the major reasons of Symbian floundering is not because of its hardware versatility but that it was lacking in Software; The UI to be precise. Even before Elop came, Symbian had been losing market share. Something had been inherently wrong with Nokia’s bureaucracy with a perennial inability to bring up a model to the market in record time. Could you imagine Nokia spent more money on R&D than Apple for instance? However there was a disconnect between the various segments of Nokia; so R&D were being done but there was no central party to synergize the different arms of Nokia and incorporate the R&D to actual products in record time. What we see is Nokia releasing products almost a year after announcing them and sometimes with out-dated hardware.
On Symbian’s resourcefulness; I am tired of hearing the talk that Symbian is very resourceful. It is good to call a spade a spade. Symbian devices have always come with meager RAM and CPU. Whatever anyone says, better RAM/CPU equates to better performance. Are we not having leaks of some Nokia series 40 and Symbian phones coming with 1GB CPU? Even the N9 and Nokia WP7 announced is to come with 1 GH CPU; that is huge in Nokia standards! Imagine a 100k phone like Nokia E7 with fixed focused camera, and meager 256MB RAM with CPU less than 1GHz. Let’s all look at the Samsung Galaxy S II with stellar features! Nokia should try to churn out phones like that and I can then say they are trying to measure up to the competition.
On Symbian’s versatility; I can’t say that it is so versatile as some guys would love to suggest and make us want to believe. Yes, it gets the job done but to what extent of pain? To what extent do I need to dig into the UI or meander around to send an E-mail or to browse? Other mobile OS like iOS and Android will do the same job very nifty and fast without my breaking a sweat! When it comes to ease of use, it’s versatility does not include that; before you kill me for this “heresy” let me define versatility;
“….with many uses: able or meant to be used in many different ways
2. moving easily between tasks: able to move easily from one subject, task, or skill to another”
How fast you do a task like using twitter, Facebook, browsing in an OS based on the UI determines how productive you’ll be. With an intuitive OS, I get the job done and feel happy all the while. In another, I may even be frustrated by the effort!
Concerning platform security, it is obvious that Symbian is more secured than Android. Why? For one, it’s because of the policy of Google. Apps are pushed into the Android store without screening. There are some apps that are just viruses ready to be installed in an Android phone. Recently, Android had to take down some apps from their store on account of threat behavior. Theoretically speaking iOS ought to be the safest platform because of lack of a folder system. Every app operates in its own sandbox, so even if an app is infected the infection is just restricted to the app and cannot communicate with another. So a mere uninstalling of the app solves the problem. In addition, Apple takes any app submitted to it to a grueling scrutiny before putting it up in the appstore for download.
However, that is a mere over-simplification. Even as we feel that Symbian is probably safer than Android or iOS is safer too. Or Android is equally safe being a mobile OS; We HAVE to tow carefully. These are dangerous times. Hackers are always on the prowl, and an OS is safe as long as it remains insignificant and not worth the time of hackers. hAckers can gain access to an OS by exploiting PDF, Mail attachment or even flash installed. Symbian, Android and iOS have all been hacked one time or another. There is even a yearly Hackers competition called pwn to own. You hack a latest phone from a distance in the fastest time and you own the phone in addition to a cash prize. All Oses present have fallen one time or the other in these competition. I would like to take a cautionary view like Eyebeekay did earlier. If CIA, Amazon, Playstation with intricate enterprise security could be hacked, then which OS is impervious? What makes any platform safe is a lack of interest in that platform! That is the only reason Windows OS have more viruses and threats than Mac OS X. But now, the number of threats in MAC is steadily catching up on account of increasing popularity and interest!
Finally, Nokia should hope to keep abreast with the competition to remain competitive. Apple’s iphone 5 isn’t out yet but when it does come, we believe it would have dual core processors and shouldn’t be less than the SG SII in specs. We hope too that when the first Nokia windows phone7 comes out, it shouldn’t run out-dated hardware with the usual excuse of “OS resourcefulness”. They shouldn’t give me that “resourcefulness” crap and then deliberately cripple the device just to maximize profit but compete with other manufacturers in hardware specs and features. That’s the only way that they can respond to the competition! Otherwise Nokia WP7 will be a ‘burning platform” too. Thanks to the Eloper!
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July 26th, 2011 at 7:34 am Browsing with
Bravo, AfewGoodMen, bravo! ( had to uncap my cao. I lack integrity, see!)
I ALMOST totally agreed with that brilliant piece. But….
(( Whatever anyone says, better RAM/CPU equates to better performance. ))
I defer.
A car with 112 horse power may produce far more torque than a 130 hp car! The important thing is the performance.
Why waste, just to follow the crowd? Numbers mean NOTHING! Performance is EVEYTHING. Isuppose we can take that to the bank…
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July 26th, 2011 at 8:22 am Browsing with
Afewgoodmen,
If you are tired of Symbian’s resource efficiency, simply don’t buy. Some of us are glad that we have these options available.
We all don’t need or want the fastest cars on the road; some of us want cars that deliver the best mileage possible. So we buy Symbian.
It will be a sad day when Symbian finally dies. Apart from Blackberry devices, looking for good battery life is likely to become a pain – unless of course battery technology has improved by then.
I love WindowsPhone, but it isn’t anywhere close to Symbian in terms of resource efficiency. At least it doesn’t seem so now.
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July 26th, 2011 at 10:20 am Browsing with
@Eye.Bee.Kay:
I defer.
A car with 112 horse power may produce far more torque than a 130 hp car! The important thing is the performance.
I like that line of argument. Facts are beginning to emerge why Symbian is more resource efficient. A car with automatic transmission system, power steering, ABS. all those sensors to tell you whenever anything goes wrong with any part of the car etc.
Well if you’re not going to be changing the gear manually, stress yourself to steer the wheel, etc, some system has to keep checking when it is necessary to switch gear and another to do the actual clutching and changing of gear. They all take a finite amount of energy or power of the cars power system. Did I hear you say negligible?
Some power has to be devoted to the power steering system to augment the little effort you putting in steering the car. You virtually gesticulate the direction you want the car to go while the system does the manual part.
Now that’s exactly what Nokia is doing. Nokia is the equivalent of manually operated automobile. They simply provide enough resources to do the core system task and leave the rest to the user.
The likes of Android and iOS need extra resources to take care of the elegant UI components and several daemons making ease of use possible.
It’s not exactly that Nokia is better with codes. They simply know how to cut corners. Yomi would not break sweat to tell you the number ND ways Nokia is better, but he wouldn’t mind breaking sweat to accomplish most simple tasks.
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July 26th, 2011 at 1:16 pm Browsing with
@Harry Echemco; Very well said. I couldn’t have done it better. The car analogy is perfect. Those days when Automatic gear just came into the country, because of lack of adoption and mechanics to service them they were cheaper; people preferred manual gears and the old ways on account of easy maintenance. And perhaps “less problem!” but now after automatic gear, power steering, automatic windows/side mirrors have caught In Nigeria; they are far more expensive than their manual counterpart. Who no like better thing? The truth is if I can drive effortlessly and don’t need to bother to change gears in a car, then why should I kill myself driving a manual car if I could afford it.
No one should deride the power of the UI. That’s what led to Symbian demise and lately RIM IS FOLLOWING suit. You need to modernise and anticipate the competition and innovate too to stay competitive.
Bosun, Nice News! The price of SGSII will come down soon and I see myself getting one or an E6 before the year runs out.
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July 26th, 2011 at 3:53 pm Browsing with
Really enjoying this debate/arguement and hoping Elop and company are reading this. Lol!……..
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July 26th, 2011 at 7:54 pm Browsing with
@afewgoodmen, samsung galaxy S II is android (automatic gear)….E6 is symbian (manual) remember….so why do you still want E6?
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July 27th, 2011 at 9:01 am Browsing with
First of all,Yomi is not on Nokia’s payroll obviously. Just last week we argued about the roll out of the Anna update and he was clearly against Nokia.
Secondly its naive bash Mr Elop for revealing Symbian would be dropped.Nokia is a multinational publicly owned company.He’s responsibility includes keeping shareholders up to date. Its just like saying Toyota CEO should not admit that their cars have technical failures. Its cooperate suicide. If you were a major shareholder in nokia, how would you feel if nokia suddenly drops symbian without prior announcement to that effect.
Furthermore I think it was a facesaving move.look at it, symbian had been losing market share for a long long time,investor confidence was dwindling,Mr Elop had to do something to assure them and what did he do,he announced the migration to a new OS,which is fresh,and more importantly will allow nokia break into the lucrative american market.
I think lots of people here just read blogs n come out to talk. Because the entire world is bashing nokia in tech blogs, everybody has suddenly become an expert on the subject. I d ask the same questions Yomi asked, how many of you have used an android fone? How many have used the new flagship symbian fones?
One think you guys easily forget is that Nokia fones are relatively cheaper on the average. Apart from E7 that was #100k, how many nokia fones are in the price range of top htc n samsung fones. I use a Nokia 5230,at the time I bought it,it was #29k, wouldn’t be stupidity to expect my phone to perform like an HTC Desire?
I checked the price of the original Samsung Galaxy S in Benin,it was #80k, not even nokia N8 is that expensive and the N8 is a newer phone. The truth is that most people that use smartphones in nigeria use Nokia cause its widely available and cheaper. How many here can afford the top HTC and Samsung phones? Comparing them is like comparing the Mercedes Benz to the average Kia car.
Am not saying Nokia is doing well,they have done pretty badly,but we should put things into perspective. Nokia generally offers smartphones for low and medium end users while right now Samsung n HTC android phones are for high end users.
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July 27th, 2011 at 12:37 pm Browsing with
@Efemena:
You certainly made interesting points here, only your points should have been for another discussion.
Though Nokia owns Symbian, the focus is on the performance of Symbian as against other smartphone OSes.
It might interest you to know that though Samsung and Sony Ericsson flagship phones go for about N100,000 they also have sub-N30,000 Android phones that are equally good for people on budget.
Though Symbian came and served its purpose well in the Stone Age of mobile computing, it is difficult for it to compete with the modern brands like Android and iOS with its antidiluvian UI that contributes to overall poor UX in Symbian devices.
If you’re so nostalgic about leaving history behind, why don’t you go get yourself a Nokia 3310. Symbian belongs to history and that’s where it is heading fast.
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July 27th, 2011 at 1:44 pm Browsing with
@Harry, Well said.
@Efemena Your points are noted but you made an erroneous assumption! Elop did not just inform his board of Directors and Management that he was ditching Symbian in lieu of the WP7 phone. He went further to “leak” a sensitive “Burning platform” letter meant for ONLY Nokia employees.
He didn’t even stop there. When SOME people including Analtsts and Eldar Murtazin were speculating on the future of Nokia and the sensitive letter allegedly signed by Nokia’s CEI, Elop, he iced the cake by announcing to the whole wide world in a joint conference with Microsoft’s Steve Balmer that Nokia Would discontinue Symbian and adopt WP7 as it’s major Smarrphone platform.
Why couldn’t the decision remain secret with Nokia’s Board? And allow others guess while gathering cheap popularity? Like the Secretive Apple? What Yomi and others were saying was that thr information should not have been made to the public. It should’ve been kept to Nokia’s Chest. Keep the Techworld guessing until a Nokia Wp7 device was ready before they inform the public!
Concerning the high end phones; that’s where all the money is. All Manufacturers know that. And Nokia can’t afford to allow Apple and Android take that over. Nokia’s phone were sometimes best sellers in the high End! Remember the Almighty N95? That’s why phones like Nokia N8, N9 and E7 are made. However you say the N8/E7 is newer than the Samsung Galaxy S. But feature-wise the Galaxy S dust them both!
Finally, many people are just not comfortable with the direction Nokia is going. Many of their policy seems to favour Microsoft more than Nokia. Symbian was crashing before but since Elop came the decline has been what I classify as torrential!!
Only time can tell whether Elop’s policy will justify him at the end as an examplerary Mobile CEO genius. Or if he is really the mole many people think that he may possibly be!
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July 27th, 2011 at 3:45 pm Browsing with
Whether it was his board of directors or not,Nokia cannot adopt another platform without informing the public simple and short. Adopting a new platform is not the same as releasing a new device. Its so much more. Blackberry announced they will lay off 2000 workers,do u think its good for them? If they had their way it wld be kept secret so as not to confirm the state of RIM,but they are things you dont keep secret.
You say there are good sub #30000 samsung android handsets,can you please mention a few? If they really exist,have you compared their performance to a nokia of d same price range? Lets stop talking blindly.
Someone said high end phones are all there is now,i wonder how many comments we would have had here if not for nokia. Get this: Most people abroad get their high end phones for $200 or less cause they are subsidized. Imagine how many apple will sell if their phones werent subsidized?
To answer the person that said we are talking about OS performance, OS performance n hardware are closely linked. In the PC world A dual core pc will not handle Windows 7 as a quad core would. Bear in mind we are talkin about the same software
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July 27th, 2011 at 4:42 pm Browsing with
@Efemana:
You say there are good sub #30000 samsung
android handsets,can you please mention a few? If they really exist,have you compared their
performance to a nokia of d same price range? Lets stop talking blindly.
* Samsung Galaxy 550 – #28000
* Samsung Wave S5333 – #28800
Sony Ericsson Xperia X10 mini – #29500
There are 2 other new W series SE Android phones priced below #30K, but if you’re actually interested in picking one head down to Slot at Computer Village in Ikeja.
You see, Nokia said their phones do not need the latest hardware because they still run well on their old Symbian. Their loyalists started envying what they see in the other modern OSes like Android and iOS and started voting with their money.
Both OS and hardware are certainly linked. Nokia hardware and Symbian OS are too old for present age of mobile computing and they are updating their hardware and switching OS for this reason. Don’t believe you’re wiser than Nokia management.
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July 28th, 2011 at 4:48 pm Browsing with
Okay, the n8 and e7 may be fine but can you say the same thing abiout the n97?
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July 29th, 2011 at 7:30 pm Browsing with
Nokia No longer First, no longer second…now THIRD! Yes THIRD…Samsung posted their results and Samsung are second closely following apple with 19.2million smartphones! Pity for nokia oo
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